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May 29th, 2008
“I HAVE NO PROBLEM SEEING YOU AS A SPIRITUAL MORON”
or
“You have become living proof that
there is a spirit of anti-Messiah out there.”
This is the second of a 3 part e-mail dialogue I had. Part 1 can be found in the journal section dated May 28th. Part 3 is June 5th and there are links to both at the end of this.
Hi Doug,
Thank you for the generous length in which you responded to my "assumptions." But please note that I asked if I could make certain assumptions. I didn't want to jump to conclusions.
Your statement, that seeing Yeshua at the Father's right hand more figuratively or esoterically makes more sense to you, is no comfort to me. It only reinforces that for you there is no objective reality or literal truth. It is probably safe to assume, given the long list of authors you quote, that you no longer send as much time with the Scriptures as you used to.
Your focus on loving G-d and loving others is so banal that it is hardly Truth. Almost anyone can say that, and precludes that someone can have wrong beliefs and wrong "loving" behavior. Hence your inability to "measure " or "judge." That was not a problem Paul had or the Master Yeshua, because many false teachers have gone out and used the Messiah as their cover. Hence I have no problem seeing you as a spiritual moron. (Notice I said "as" without actually calling you one.)
I really don't care if your wife now trusts you, or if you are the answer to someone's prayers, or that millions and millions of people are awakening to "spiritual things." I care in the sense of sorrowing, but none of that can endorse your self-confessed New Age beliefs to me. You have become a living proof that there is a spirit of anti-Messiah out there.
Doug, repentance is never hard. All you have to do is admit you are wrong and say you are sorry.
Blessings ***: First I really do appreciate that you corrected me regarding your assumptions. I was guilty of doing what I thought you were doing. My apologies.
***, neither of us need to be rocket scientists to realize that our paths have diverged and we are probably at a point where we could dialogue back and forth (and that would be fine with me) but probably accomplish very little. I remember a few years ago when the Messianic world got into a huge debate over the calendar and the dates of the feasts. The debates went on and on and turned very ugly in some cases. In the end, nothing was resolved because all of the participants were convinced that they had the truth and it was their job to get the other person to convert to their view. The end result was further division. In some cases people and/or groups were booted out of organizations because they didn't adjust their calendar etc. to match the larger group though ironically, the larger group was the group that changed from one calendar to another. I have seen discussions on the divinity of Yeshua go on for months on Messianic forums and in the end, accomplish very little, if anything at all. I am not suggesting that these debates are right or wrong. They are what they are. We all have our own version of the truth, including me. Some may not agree but I have no problem saying that all of us, me included, really do not share the truths of the Bible but simply our interpretation of those truths. Hopefully someday we will discover that our interpretation occasionally lined up with the truth.
The differences you and I have *** certainly show up in our views of objective reality, at least as I am interpreting your comments. I see the spiritual aspects, for example, of Yeshua sitting at the right hand of the Father, as far more a reality than the literal/physical event could ever be. Now, that doesn't necessarily preclude a physical manifestation but it is the spiritual manifestation that is more "real" to me.
As to my time spent in the Scriptures, I would definitely agree that my time has diminished but that the difference now isn't so much about the amount of time spent but more the way I am approaching the Scriptures. I am focusing much more on specific sections of Scripture. For example, I am definitely spending more time contemplating the words in red, i.e. Yeshua's words and I am spending a great deal of time contemplating the first few chapters of Genesis as well as certain sections of Paul's writings. I am not spending time reading the weekly Torah portions, nor am I spending much time in the Prophets in the Tanakh. I am finding myself spending a lot of time contemplating the way a teaching from a non-biblical source is often very biblical when we can get past semantics. And I am also spending some time reading some of the ancient manuscripts etc. that were not included in the Bible, much to the chagrin I am sure of some people.
I must admit that I chuckled when I read "Hence I have no problem seeing you as a spiritual moron. (Notice I said "as" without actually calling you one.)" You should be a lawyer. I think they use a phrase called "without prejudice" in which they can call you just about anything but you can't sue them. Anyway, I would have been surprised and shocked if some of those people that we have corresponded with, didn't come to that conclusion.
Is my position proof of a "anti-Messiah" position currently functioning? I find that a most interesting conclusion when I am encouraging people to live, experience and walk out in their life exactly what Yeshua did. Again, ***, it all boils down to interpretation. You see Yeshua having a certain mission and message. I may see him having a very different one and we are both using the same texts. That this can occur shouldn't surprise anyone, simply look at the differences between Christianity and the Messianic movement and even the differences within each of those groups. And all the participants are using the same book, same passages and same verses to reach very different conclusions.
***, I am sorry for many things but probably not for the things that you think I should be. For now we will have to leave it at that.
Blessings and again I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I wish you all of God's best.
Doug
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